Hi there- New to phase

[Teknokid]

Hi there, as you can probably tell im new to phase...
I saw you guys in action over on custompc, and thought you'd be the guys to talk to.
Basically i love overclocking (as im sure you do) and after water cooling want to take it to the next level. Ive been told vapochill etc just dont match up to the sorts of things you guys make, so was wondering if anyone here built them for customers?
Ive also got a few questions:
Like a vapochill, does it control itself with software etc (ie getting to -*C before booting)etc?
Do they need re-gassing, or are they set for a good 4-5 years once you have them set up.
Many thanks
Nice work in surrey btw guys
Tek

[Thickbrit]

Hi,and welcome.Yes normally a custom built single stage phase cooler,will have more cooling potential than a pre-built unit such as prometeia or vapochill,although prebuilt units are good for beginners and 24/7 use.Custom built units are either made to run without a controller and the user must control on/off and boot delay and resarts,or else there are several people making controllers for custom phase units such as x-froster's and unseen's.Normally a well built unit should not leak and therefore should not need recharging for many years,unless it needs recharging due to considerable changes in heatload.A custom built unit can be fully tailored to your exact requirements and preferences.The only problem you have is finding someone to build you a unit over here in the U.K..There are not many people doing it,as setup costs are horrendous,profit margins minimal,responsibilty is high and most customers have no appreciation of the time and effort involved in building a reliable,well made unit.There are a fair few of us here involved in building units,such as sacha35,4Qman,soddemfx,Bazx,myself and maybe others,but for most,it is only a hobby.I would/will build you a unit,but i currently have 3/4 projects to get finished up,before i could start any more,as i don't want to end up as many builders have done over on xs in the past.If you can wait a couple of months for me,then drop me a p.m. to discuss your needs.If you can't,little devil sells prebuilt units,or there are custom builders on xs,but beware there and always get a second opinion.

[Teknokid]

thanks for the reply, very quick. Ive been speaking with littledevil also by PM, and im incredibly tempted. Im in the processes of building a new case, which is what the phase will be for.
As im new too it, i would prefer to have a unit like a vapochill where i can turn the pc on and not have to worry, and where its pretty low maintenance (although i dont mind this so much) its just the worry of frying something due to being noobie.
Anything you can suggest?
also whats the power draw of this sort of thing?
Thanks
Tek

[Thickbrit]

A mach (prometeia) unit is my choice of pre built phase,and i could sell you one of a couple of units i have (via pm),but with a good controller any custom unit should be as user friendly.If you want something built into a case,that will be a custom build,unless you go for a little devil v2000 unit.As for current draw,that will depend upon compressor used.

[Teknokid]

Ok, thats sounds cool, im not fussed about it fitting in a case, im building a huge case that can be adapted to hold it....
Would the units some of you guys build have controller built in?

[Thickbrit]

I see no point in having a controller on a purely benching single stage,a simple on/off switch is sufficient.It's not needed for 24/7 use either,but does offer the novice user or absent minded individual a certain amount of protection against destroying something.All a controller will normally do is give you a boot delay which allows the evap to get cold enough to prevent the chip from overpowering it initially.It will offer a restart delay of about 3 minutes,to allow the high and low side of the phase system to equalise somewhat and prevent damage to the compressor.It will also offer safety shutdowns should the compressor or condenser get too hot,or if power loss to motherboard is detected (pc off).Lastly the controller will offer you a display output.Most/all of these benefits can be met with the use of an on/off switch,a temperature meter and a brain.

[Teknokid]

yes but for a first timer like me its good to have :)

[Thickbrit]

Yes,it probably is.I still use a standard mach gt for 24/7 use,but beware the software won't work in anything other than xp 32bit.

[Teknokid]

ooh, im using vista 64, although i do have xp for benchmarking.
Once set from the software level, does it need to be changed? ie i could set it up in xp then once its done use vista?

[weescott]

The Mach2GT uses 500w on start up. Forget how much it uses in normal operation though. I used mine 24/7 for a bit. It wasn't too expensive.

You can use the software on Vista in compatibility mode surely? The problem with the Mach 2GT is that the bios may need flashing to work on S775.

[Stocky]

The Mach2GT uses 500w on start up. Forget how much it uses in normal operation though. I used mine 24/7 for a bit. It wasn't too expensive.

Mav worked out the costings a while back using a meter on the socket to read the amount the system was drawing in operation. It'd be handy to have that to refer to again :)

[Teknokid]

Ive been using other software thats xp only on vista, but i can use xp, its just i normally use vista...
I like the look of little devils Phase units, but are they come with a controller/software as its my 1st exposure to sub ambient i dont want anything to go wrong..

[Stocky]

I have seen that LittleDevil uses 'unseen' controllers, so 'yes' is the answer to your question :)

You could contact/ PM any of the builders and I'm sure that they'd be happy to help you out with a build :)

[LittleDevil]

Here is unseen controler on my unit:

http://ld-phasechange.com/images/Carpe%5eDiem_SS/7.jpg

http://ld-phasechange.com/images/Carpe%5eDiem_SS/11.jpg

And golden froster:

http://ld-phasechange.com/images/Titinhos_v2000b/ss/3.jpg

http://ld-phasechange.com/images/Trung's%20SS/22.jpg

Regards

[Teknokid]

nice, im not sure what the other members builds are like but little devils look rather good.
Ill start on my case once companys go back to work after the new year break then ill get an order in for a phase :)
thanks for all the help guys, its certainly cleared up a few things...

[Johnny Bravo]

You can use the software on Vista in compatibility mode surely? The problem with the Mach 2GT is that the bios may need flashing to work on S775.

Out of morbid curiosity why does it need the BIOS flash? I'm doubting it can tell the difference in cpus so is it a initial cool down period change or something?

[Teknokid]

i guess maybe because quads output more heat...

[weescott]

Out of morbid curiosity why does it need the BIOS flash? I'm doubting it can tell the difference in cpus so is it a initial cool down period change or something?

Apologies, I meant the Mach2 firmware (not bios) may need flashed for the software to work on S775 motherboards.

[Teknokid]

that would make more sense.
Btw do phases wear out in time (have a limited life span) or are they the sort of thing i could use on my next pc, and the next, and the next....

[LittleDevil]

that would make more sense.
Btw do phases wear out in time (have a limited life span) or are they the sort of thing i could use on my next pc, and the next, and the next....

You can use it many years, like fridger you only need to change mounting kit for different sockets.

Best Regards

[Stocky]

Apologies, I meant the Mach2 firmware (not bios) may need flashed for the software to work on S775 motherboards.

I think that the controllers work from the standard ATX signals (power sense line) so they should last fine with mobo upgrades :)

[Teknokid]

yup, although my dad pays the bill so it doesnt bother me too bad :)

[LittleDevil]

And here is power consumption of NL11F unit.

http://ld-phasechange.com/images/power_consumption/1.jpg

Regards

[Teknokid]

ooh, thats actually rather a lot :S
I guess its probably worth it though.... just make sure you dont leave your pc afk for a while....
Cheers for the info
Tek

[Thickbrit]

Mach drivers and software cannot be run under vista at all.

[Dualist]

ooh, thats actually rather a lot :S

When you start overclocking your cpu how much do you think the cpu will consume alone.?

[Stocky]

When you start overclocking your cpu how much do you think the cpu will consume alone.?

...around the same as that figure :p

[Teknokid]

yeah, lol, i know the cpu uses a lot of power, but thats powering the pc :)

[Stocky]

yeah, lol, i know the cpu uses a lot of power, but thats powering the pc :)

In computers I see the CPU as the brain and the PSU as the heart...

The cooling system is like the blood, so I think it is quite important :cool:

[Teknokid]

yeah i guess so :)
but the blood doesnt normally take all the oxygen (electricity)...

[Teknokid]

oh, btw, what is the cool down time like when booting the system?

[Stocky]

Usually 30sec to 60secs. Although, it depends what you set the BOOT temp to and when the system was last used.

[Teknokid]

wow, i was imagining 10minz, thats what was putting me off. Little devil if i was to boot at say -10 how long would that take on one of your units?

[Stocky]

Just so that you know my Prometeia MachII default BOOT temp was -33'C but the lower the temp obviously the longer it will take.

One thing to consider is that -10'C may not be low enough to BOOT if you're running an overclocked system that is stable at say -30'C...

[Teknokid]

oh, well say 30 degrees then, aslong as its around a minute thats fine by me :) that was the only bad point compared to water that i needed to clear up

[weescott]

Depending on the ambient temp you should be able to boot a PC straight away with phase and a CPU at stock. It defeats the purpose of phase alltogether mind.

My day to day phase unit takes twice as long to pull down as my benching unit. I guess 5-10 minutes, not sure of the exact time TBH.

[Stocky]

My day to day phase unit takes twice as long to pull down as my benching unit. I guess 5-10 minutes, not sure of the exact time TBH.

Does it need re-gassing as that seems like a long time? :unsure:

[Teknokid]

yeah, anything over 2mins or so is a bit of a bummer for me.

[weescott]

Does it need re-gassing as that seems like a long time? :unsure:

Thats based on pull down to max. (-62c for bench unit, roughly -55c for the other which also uses quiet fans). I'll have to check when I get home.

[Teknokid]

erm, is there any chance of a piccy of how much power the LD phase unit pulls when idle/ under say around 60w of load? many thanks