Dice in Practice

[blindfitter]

First Dice run,
Need a couple of answers from the dryice guys,

Got a pot on order will be here in couple of weeks, organizing a supply of Dry ice.

Am familiar with the board prep, same as Single stage.

A bottle of acetone 1 litre is to be obtained, any special sort?

Now the cooking begins, system will set up with xp and tested with air cooling ect.

So what comes next, start up computer with nowt in pot? Add acetone how much? Add pellets of dry ice? Or fill the container and start benching.

As the pot uses the dice do you keep it topped up or let it almost empty? Do you have to add acetone when adding more dry ice.

Just getting the prep done, will be dragging the old dfi expert for this first run, learn on old kit first, rather than putting new kit at risk.

Temp I have a fluke to measure temps, do you just take the temp down to max -71cish

[maverik-sg1]

My only advice (having not used DI before) would be to set-up best clocks on phase - I know your unit is undergoing some work right now so I have the R507 mach here for you if needed mate :)

Mav

[blindfitter]

cheers my friend, hope pete dont keep it to long,

it the mixing I need to know about at the moment

[4Qman]

K404 is dice man.

Key is ti be prepared and understand and know your setup before you bench ;)

[ncc-1709]

make sure you have a tamper at all times as air pockets form down the bottom of the tube.
and 1inch of acitone, so dice, make a sluchy mix and keep tamping it down. you could just top it off with dice and keep pushing it down.

[blindfitter]

make sure you have a tamper at all times as air pockets form down the bottom of the tube.
and 1inch of acitone, so dice, make a sluchy mix and keep tamping it down. you could just top it off with dice and keep pushing it down.

Thanks for the tip, not heard or seen that one published.

Any more tips welcome

[Deanzo]

Use pure acetone or as close as you can get, other wise you will have ice form at the bottom of the pot.

Add your crushed up dry ice first, and let the pot cool down a bit before adding the acetone.

Keep the pot full of dry ice, you will only need to add more acetone after hours of benching.

Unlike LN2 you can't really pick/set your temp, it will just drop to -70 (or so) and rise during load, vcore plays a big part on how much it will rise.

[K404]

The first few pellets of dice will sublime very quickly, with a nice plume of CO2 gas. Only put a little dice in until the acetones temp drops, else it'll spit. I actually wouldnt use slush to start- the surface area means it'll sublime more violently and will be more likely to spit. I try to dig out some bigger bits to get the pot and acetone down to temp.

Add enough acetone to cover the surface area of the base of the pot.

Dont fill the tube. If ya cant see the acetone bubbling, thats enough I reckon. Filling the tube will use up dice a lot faster for very little gain, if any.

Startup order is up to you. Sometimes il boot to BIOS and view the CPU temp, then start adding dice, sometimes il let the dice cool for a minute before I start the computer...doesnt really matter- it wont be until you load the CPU in windows that you'll find out if the contact is good.

The pot will need a little time to absorb cold to hold a load properly.

The acetone will evaporate/be carried away slowly over the day. You'll lose a couple mm of the depth over the course of a day.

___________________

I do see conflicting advice in this thread :) Comes down to user preference I guess :)

[skull_fcuk]

*absorbs everything!* This is all good guys, i really welcome all advice.

[blindfitter]

Thanks, I know everybody does not do things the same way, we all have preferences, but its good to get a variation of method.

Where’s a good stockist of acetone? Because 1 of my daughters runs her own beauty business and can get it for me from the wholesaler, would this be good enough,

[ncc-1709]

their is a link somewhere on the forusm to it on e-bay at like £10 per liter.

and filling the tube just means you dont have to top it so regualrly that all, if you can keep topping it up, then less is gonna be better, as it desolves into the acitone better.

and yes, the spitting was fun the first time, but i aint gonna have it happen again... as it hit my eye last time.

[K404]

Some LLoyds Chemists sell it, it should be less than £10/L.

In an act of desperation, I tried a beauty salon for acetone- apparently they use acetone-free solvents because its bad for the skin. I have no idea if their substitute will be good at -78, or good for thermal transfer.

Ebay has it £18/5L (single can)- thats the best bet.

[elfy]

ok so it seems to be add a bit acetone, inch or so, ad some pellets to start bringing it down, boot to bios to look at temps? then add some more untill you can't see the acetone then just top up as you go along? no need to add more acetone?

[blindfitter]

ok so it seems to be add a bit acetone, inch or so, ad some pellets to start bringing it down, boot to bios to look at temps? then add some more untill you can't see the acetone then just top up as you go along? no need to add more acetone?

Sounds good to me elfy, you having a go

[Highland3r]

Few lessons learnt when benching DICE with Persivore. Note we used Chilly Tubes, so there's a large raised "lump" in the middle of the tube so things may differ slightly.

Firstly we found the best way to get a perfect contact (and allow the TIM to cure) was to boot the machine (running stock or close to stock speeds with a slightly increased vcore) with no DICE in the tube. You can add acetone if you want though.
Boot to bios and monitor the CPU temps, if you've got a thermocouple stuck in the tube (they're VERY handy and worth looking into if you can) then check the tube temp is increasing also.
If you don't have one, then feel the base of the tube to make sure its getting warm. Let the system run until the CPU gets to ~ 50 deg then shut it off and leave for a few mins. This helps the TIM spreadout a little and improves contact. Most TIM's will freeze solid at DICE (and phase) temps and this method allows it to spread out a little.

Once done, add a little DICE into the tube. As kenny said you'll see violent sublimation intially but this dies down pretty quickly. Using a pole (metal works well) carefully poke the DICE to remove any crust which maybe forming. As mentioned before you should aim for a watery slush in the bottom of the tube.
Only add a small amount of DICE at a time, and use your poking stick to ensure all the pellets have contact with the acetone. Also ensure you don't get any lumps forming on the base of the tube.
If you can't see the "boiling" liquid in the bottom of the tube then you're using too much DICE.

Acetone wise, 1-1.5 cm will more than enough and as kenny mentioned you'll need to top it up during a session.

We usually booted the machine with max overclocks once the tube was down to its lowest temp. Check the bios and make sure (assuming you're mobo's accurate) the CPU is dropping temp as you'd expect.

I'd recommend fixing a thermocouple to the base of the tube if you can, a little blob of seal string works nicely and makes benching a WHOLE lot easier. Firstly you can ensure contact is good (temps drop when CPU is loaded). Secondly its easier to work out what works best in terms of DICE addition and can also help you work out when you need to add more DICE. This is assuming of course that you get a decent contact between probe and tube, if you don't then its not much use at all!

[Johnny Bravo]

Firstly we found the best way to get a perfect contact (and allow the TIM to cure) was to boot the machine (running stock or close to stock speeds with a slightly increased vcore) with no DICE in the tube. You can add acetone if you want though.
Boot to bios and monitor the CPU temps, if you've got a thermocouple stuck in the tube (they're VERY handy and worth looking into if you can) then check the tube temp is increasing also.
If you don't have one, then feel the base of the tube to make sure its getting warm. Let the system run until the CPU gets to ~ 50 deg then shut it off and leave for a few mins. This helps the TIM spreadout a little and improves contact. Most TIM's will freeze solid at DICE (and phase) temps and this method allows it to spread out a little.


I fully agree with this step - something I do myself - remember that you wanna get a pretty thin layter on there as when it freezes I suspect some contraction/expansion will occur and your thermal paste will hinder temps.

Acetone is the best - you can also use pure ethanol as well if you cannot get the acetone.

As always safety is paramount. You're dealing with CO2 here with can kill quickly and is a "heavier" gas so it displaces air - make sure you have windows open and someone around to keep an eye on you. Acetone is also likely to go to your head - don't sit there sniffing it :D

Use about a shot-double shot glass of acetone. Like everyone says watch for spitting form the dry ice subliming at the start. What I've done in the past is actually put powered dry ice in first to lower the tube then added the acetone later but it's a personal choice thing.

Use the Dry ice sparingly, buy shove it all in at once cus it's basically a waste. I find a table spoon(ish) is enough to regulate temperatures. Also if you crash or for some obsure reason hit a coldbug you'll be glad you have only a little dry ice in the pot!

Most of all enjoy!

[elfy]

lol a few conflicting comments here, not too helpfull :(

[ncc-1709]

well some are saying use a little and keep topping it up regularly, others say fill to the top and fill once in a while.
your chioce.

[elfy]

no-one's really said fill it up, you're all using different measurements to describe pretty much the same amount of acetone, only one person has stated that acetone needs to be topped up so i'm a bit confused about that

[Stocky]

no-one's really said fill it up, you're all using different measurements to describe pretty much the same amount of acetone, only one person has stated that acetone needs to be topped up so i'm a bit confused about that

I think that you only top up the acetone when it gets low, such as if you're running an extended bench session.

[K404]

Over 12 hours I lost maybe 2mm of the acetone depth. It DOES reduce in volume, but not disasterously.

This can only give you pointers ;) Trust yourself to make decisions based on what you see and feel whilst benching!! Its YOUR benching after all!

[blindfitter]

Thanks for the various tips/suggestions; I have received what I was after, what individuals do, in a benching session using dice.

No doubt I will try all the methods stated here, and then concoct my own preference.

Yes I do have thermocouple and Fluke. Should have my pot here soon 5/10days I was told.

[Stocky]

...Should have my pot here soon 5/10days I was told.

I expect pics from you! :p

[Deanzo]

As some one said above, it's all personal choice.

I see a number of guys put the acetone in first, I did the same the first time. But now I all way put the crushed up dry ice in first to cool the pot down a little and I use a syringe to add the acetone nice and slow, this way it all most doesn't spit.

Try it both ways and see what works for you. there isn't really a wrong way, it's about personal preference.

And just to add to all the different ways to say the measurement, I use around 30-35ml's

[skull_fcuk]

Yet more brilliant advice there. Thanks Highland3r. I've just gotten my grubby little hands on K404's CPU pot, so i'm looking to be doing my first DICE runs next week. Looks like (after reading this and the LN2 insulating guide) that i'll be buying a good deal more Ceramique, to use as insualting around my Mobo's various 'bits' around the socket. *looks to Pascal again ;)*.

So wish me luck, and thanks guys for all the advice and support, here's to me scoring some cups for the Team.

[K404]

Something I thought of today whilst refilling my acetone bottles-

If you arent using /cant use a droplok tube (or similar) only fill the bottles about half-way up- it means you can get a better angle for pouring into a pot with less chance of spilling/dripping or dribbling- even if using a funnel :)

[K404]

More ideas:

Adding a large amount of dice after a period might give a reassuring boiling sound and a nice plume, but it doesnt do the acetone levels any favours- it is carried away with the CO2 plume. Adding more acetone after that means loss of temp and the temp will have to be partially pulled down again


Pots of diameter <2" will show capillary action and the acetone will bubble right up to the top. Add only one-tweo pellets of dice for 15-20 minutes until the temp has pulled down. If the acetone starts to bubble close to the top of the tube, blow onto it and it will move back down. If you add too much dice at once the acetone will bubble right over the top, and if you're blowing on it at the time, expect the acetone to spread itself ;) Do not rush the pull down, and keep the dice topped up once its pulled down, else you'll have to repat the process.

[Bustah]

Some great advice here thnx guys.:)

[reno 456]

The fact is everyone like to uses dry ice differently, everyone likes different amounts of acctone and different methods of adding it. The two things that EVERYONE agrees on is use as pure acetone and if it spits loads your doing it wrong.

My personal preference is about an inch of actone bigger dices to start then it won't spit to much then I like to move on to smaller pieces. I have never used powder so I don't know know how good it is. But I wouldn't us it to start of with. I like to add little amounts and keep topping it up were as others prefer to shovel loads in an leave it.

And don't forget insulation or your motherboard ain't going to be working for much longer!